Episode 1: Reconnecting to the Traditional Yogic Ecosystem with Prasad Rangnekar TRANSCRIPT
Harpinder Mann
I am so excited to be joined today by Prasad Rangnekar. We're going to be beginning with the very first question of, what does yoga mean to you?
Prasad Rangnekar
Well, it's a very loaded question and a big question because we see a lot of different kinds of meanings and definitions of yoga. And it's not just a recent phenomena it is it has been happening since the ancient times, many people have given their own interpretations of yoga. Definitions have changed, definitions have been put forth, you know? And also the language of yoga, the main language of yoga, Sanskrit, also is very—what you call—very contextual. So yoga could just mean purely a mathematical addition. Okay, yoga could also mean putting two bulls together for the sake of agriculture. So yoga could mean many, many things but in the context of what we are talking about I see yoga as a philosophy, a science, a process of self-transformation to reach lasting peace within. So it's not just a practice, it's also a process. It is not just a method, a method, but methods. It is also not a philosophy. There are multiple ideologies and philosophies under the umbrella of yoga. Plus it is not something vague, mystical. It has, traditionally, since the tradition it has what we would call nowadays as a scientific approach. You know, things are presented in a very organized way through the scriptures, in a very accessible way. So for me in short, yoga is a science, process, philosophy of self-transformation with a legit goal. That goal being self-understanding or a state of lasting—reaching a lasting peace within.
Harpinder Mann
Thank you for that beautiful answer and I feel like also nuanced answer where it goes into there are different philosophies and different methods. It's not just: “this is what it is.” And I know you share this earlier in a class where yoga is complex and that's what makes it so beautiful to understand and to study. It's not just… and I think that also relates to us as human beings, we're also pretty complex.
Prasad Rangnekar
Yes.
Harpinder Mann
And it's taking that time to really fully understand ourselves. And that can happen through the practice, the philosophy of yoga. I know I'm so grateful for having found it over 10 years ago. And I went—and I've spoken about this in the podcast already—I went from being a pretty anxious person to a little bit less of an anxious person. And that really happened through being on this path of yoga and learning to understand myself, learning to understand my mind and being able to, to work on myself and something you also share is like being really gentle with yourself on this process.
Prasad Rangnekar
Yeah, yeah.
Harpinder Mann
And being very empathetic.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely. I consider myself a student-practitioner. You know, how many years I have done yoga, how many numbers I have to my qualification, how many certificates I have, it hardly matters. What matters is staying in your humbleness as a student-practitioner. You know? So in that sense for me yoga, perhaps throwing another definition at you, but yoga for me is a life skill. You know, so it's not just something that I do Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 6 to 7 in the evening. For me, yoga, I see yoga as a life skill, just like swimming or driving. You know, we need to know these life skills to help us navigate through life. Yoga for me is a life skill. Traditionally too, it has always been a life skill. If you see the scriptures or just take Bhagavad Gita, you know, from the chapter 1st to chapter 18, Arjuna has transformed so, so drastically just by understanding some basic principles of life and self. So in that sense, you're absolutely right. So, yeah, yoga is deeply transformative. And if you have seen the benefit, the transformation in you, then that itself is a testimony to the success of yoga.
Harpinder Mann
In talking about one of the goals of yoga being that self-transformation, that understanding of oneself. Are there other say original or traditional goals that are kind of like a through line of many different traditions and lineages when we're looking at yoga?
Prasad Rangnekar
Yes, yes. The traditional yoga is very clear. That it is no matter whichever path you take, when you say yoga, it is… the goal of that yoga is something called as moksha or freedom from psychological limitations. Okay. Sometimes it is also called as relieves from suffering, duḥkha nivṛtti. Sometimes it is also called as self-knowledge, atmajnan. So there is a well-defined yoga for the path of yogic, traditionally yoga. It is not merely for physical wellness or mental well-being. The traditional goal of yoga takes into account the entireness or entirety of human personality and also the entirety of the universe. It's not an isolated, self-obsessed process that we are on. By transforming the self, we are also helping transform or evolve not just the society but also the universe. In that sense, the traditional view is very very holistic, very holistic.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah I feel like sometimes that really larger encompassing goal and connection gets missed in the way often yoga is equated, and I've spoken about this many times in the podcast, yoga being equated to exercise and that focus on just the physical well-being and the mental well-being. When we're looking at these bigger goals or more well-encompassing goals of like moksha, the khanavrti. How are those different practices that people can start to work towards instead of just focusing on the physical well-being?
Prasad Rangnekar
Well, by first acknowledging that yoga is more than what we, plus like in the modern sense, “do.”
Harpinder Mann
Yeah.
Prasad Rangnekar
You know, and that itself is a big transformation of narrative that needs to happen. That, you know, in popular culture yoga is still seen as a physical practice. Doesn't mean it is not a physical practice. It is also a physical practice. Traditionally physical practices of yoga were optional. You know not everybody did physical practice. They were active enough, they were embodied enough, they were more into their physicality as it is because they had this active kind of life. So first we need to acknowledge that yes, I'm doing asana, which is a part of yoga but just because I'm doing something doesn't mean it is the entirety of it. You know, just because I drive a car of brand A doesn't mean the whole world is only that brand, you know? So just by acknowledging that there is more to what I do than just what I do. And just because I like what I do doesn’t mean everything has to become that. Right? I call this the great yoga hijack. Just because I do asana and it's beneficial for me and it's good for me and I like it, that means the entire yoga has to be reduced to asana…. It doesn't have to be that. You know?
So, number one acknowledging that yes I am doing I'm practicing a part of something that is extensive. Then number two having a sincere desire to know, you know? Because what usually happens is in in the modern narrative we have projected yoga as the “how,” as a practice. We call also, “I'm doing my yoga practice.”
Harpinder Mann
Yeah
Prasad Rangnekar
But it is not only practice, it is a process. There is a “why” to it. The “how” has a “why.” The “why” is layered, as in: I do asana for physical well-being. I do pranayama for mental well-being, emotional well-being. I do deeper reflections for realigning my belief system. So there is a graded process of yogic transformation. That needs to be told to people. And once you know that there is a lot that yoga can offer. You know, it's pure… in the... in a purely marketing sense. People should know what is an offer. Yeah, if you are a restaurant that has a full eight-course meal but you're only emphasizing that there is salad then the people will just think this restaurant serves salad. So there should be a sincere desire to know, including reverence for its cultural, traditional roots. You know it's just sometimes I find it interesting—but I respect that—that is just in the last five years or six, seven years that the popular yoga or at least yoga teachers everywhere have suddenly woken up to the fact that yoga has roots. Wow! You know, yoga has a culture, amazing! Oh, yoga has a traditional basis, great! So I really admire this, you know, this whole awakening, which is good for people and yoga, which is good to bring in certain reverence to our understanding and also to the subject of yoga.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, because I think having that understanding of the tradition, culture and geographical roots makes a difference because we're not just practicing and understanding yoga in a vacuum. It, like, comes from a place and that place that informs the philosophies and the goals. I know I've in my research for this book, I've seen things like people saying “Oh, well, this is American yoga and this just began 150 years ago the way that it's practiced now.” And I read these things, and I'm just like… that's… I feel like people say those things so they can just like cut it off and be like, “Now we can do whatever we want because now it's American yoga.” Yeah, and I find that I'm a little disrespectful when that's done.
Prasad Rangnekar
Yeah, that happens I feel because we, and I'm saying we, okay, to a certain extent I am also responsible being a part of this worldview. That's because we have commodified yoga. You know? We have… we’ve just made, “This is yoga now you take it.” It's like that, you know? So because it has become a commodity there is a certain impatience or rush to excel at it. Now if you want to excel at it, you want to grow yourself but also show that others are below you. So… and that's why, you know? “Because I know better than you or because I feel yoga is this, yoga is this.” Can't be like that. You know yoga is extremely complex because it is a body of knowledge. And I purposely use this term. Yoga is a body of knowledge. And just like our body is made up of different parts, yet working in integrity, yoga is also like that. You know, like if you ask me, “What’s the history of yoga?” It would be like asking, “What's the history of cuisine, history of food, history of economics?” It's as wide a subject. You know and we can divide the yogic history on multiple levels. That's why it is overwhelming. It is, I admit as a student and also as an educator of yogic history and culture, it is overwhelming because look, we can divide yogic history on basis of time, temporally. Yeah?
So the way older Upanishads viewed yoga is different to how—let's say older Upanishads, so 800 BC. The perception of yoga in 800 BC was different to perception of yoga in 1000 AD. So based on that time frame we have slightly different perceptions. Number two: division of history on basis of place. The yogic ideologies or philosophies that have come from the north of India, regions of Kashmir, Himalayas, are somewhat different to the ideologies and rituals that have emerged in the south of India. We can divide the history on basis of language. You know? Literature in Sanskrit, yogic literature in Sanskrit. And then there is yogic literature in the thousands, literally thousands of languages and dialects that are in India. Thousands. Okay? Then we have division of history based on religion. Yeah, the four major religions that have emerged from the Indian subcontinent: Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism. All of them have their own yogas. Division of yoga based on subjects like logic, metaphysics, ethics, division of yoga, yogic history based on saints, mystics, yogis. You know? These are just things that… or scriptures! You know, what the Tantric scripture says Upanishads may not say. History of yoga based on techniques. The techniques that Bhakti yogis use, maybe the Hatha yogis don't use. Sorry for a long answer but I'm just… since I made a remark that yoga is complex I have to you know, substantiate my statement. And these are just points that are coming to my mind right now. So you see, we cannot have a linear view of yoga. This is what I wanted to say.
Harpinder Mann
No, thank you for going into that level of detail, because I think that helps also students and practitioners and teachers and even myself to move away from that feeling of like, “Oh, I don't know anything” or like, “The little that I do know, it's not enough.” And it's just like, well, it is just complex. So it's like the… for me, speaking from my own experience, then the little that I know, I can celebrate that and practice and then keep moving forth on the journey. It doesn't have to be a, “Oh my god, there's so much to know and I don't know any of it. That means there's something wrong with me.” It just means there's—it's just layered and complex and there's so much to it that maybe in this lifetime, I'm just not going to be able to get to it.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely.
Harpinder Mann
And that's okay.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely right. And this is what every yoga student and teacher should know: that yoga is complex and you don't have to know everything. And you don't have to do everything also. And you are not supposed to know everything. This is the beauty of it. Traditionally, too, you are not supposed to know everything. You are supposed to know yourself. Yoga is not about intellectual breadth of knowledge. Yoga is about a depth of self-understanding. This is a big, big point that I'm making right now. You don't have to know many things in yoga. You just have to know yourself. It's about knowing just one thing. But the kind of pedagogy we are coming from, all of us, including myself, we feel, the more books I read, the more I know. The more I know, the better I'm yogi. This is actually opposite of yoga. The lesser theoretical knowledge you have. Ideally—okay now, okay I'll reword that statement. I would say if your theoretical knowledge is not sharpening your understanding of self then it's just intellectual head-scratching. That's why in yogic history we have—we have had mystics and yogis and self-realized masters whose scholastic education was hardly… they could hardly read and write. But experientially, they realized what the scriptures said and so pundits, that is scholars and PhDs and so-called intellectuals would go to these so-called “illiterate” self-realized mystics sit at their feet and ask them the doubts. Because they were intellectually big but experientially not there. So this is something that needs to be told again and again because… FOMO is real in the yoga world.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah.
Prasad Rangnekar
FOMO, overwhelm because of… there's so much to know. I call it “the problem of plenty.” You know, the problem of plenty. Every other yoga influencer tells you what to do. Every other day you have 10 new books of yoga on the shelf. So if you get into this fallacy: the more I read, the more I will know, perhaps you will know more intellectually. But the more you know intellectually, it does not make your self-transformation journey easy.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, this is really resonating for me personally, because I, in the last six months of writing this book, have read a lot of books. But what I've been feeling is a part of me that kind of keeps being like, “I just want to get back in the world.” Like I want to like shut my laptop down, I want to close all the books down, I just want to live. Like I just want to go back to living. And there is that difference. And I think that's also when we talk about yoga, why we say it's an experiential practice, why you have to live and embody your yoga.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely.
Harpinder Mann
It's not just something you go to your mat for one hour, you read the Yoga Sutras and then you just forget about it. Like, how do you take those teachings and apply it to your life? And that's that's the way to really be living it.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely, because that is where the real experiential knowledge is going to come from. You know, not by reading. Yes, we read. But… it's like, you know, a usual example I give is, it's like trying to learn swimming by reading a book. You can't learn swimming by reading a book. You have to get into the waters. You know, move your hands, move your legs, allow the water to go into your mouth, into your eyes. You know, drown a little bit, have your swimming coach rescue you a couple of times, till you can let go your body weight enough that you can allow the buoyancy of the water to hold you up. And then you just move your arms and you're just floating. And that's what personally for me in the last couple of years, this is my project, personal project as a yoga teacher. To really make people reflect on what they are actually doing. You know I call it… not just in the sense of knowledge gain but also in the sense of personal experience. That's why I call it “unself the self” you know the whole teachings of mine are now about unselfing the self. So, yeah. I think this needs to be told. If nothing, just to ease the overwhelm of the yoga teachers, of the students because there's always a next posture, there's always a next pranayama, there's always a next scripture, there's always a next course. Right?
Harpinder Mann
This next question, we've been talking a little bit about it. What do you perceive as like, what is traditional yoga—if we can say that, which I think we can and we've been talking about it— versus modern or popular yoga?
Prasad Rangnekar
Yeah I like to call it “popular” not “modern” because there are lots of amazing teachers and lots of amazing educational initiatives and nice things happening in modern yoga. So I don't want to just bash modern yoga because I myself am a part of it. And they're really very, very well-meaning, genuinely intending teachers in modern yoga. Everybody is doing their part. Secondly, just because we are comparing modern yoga and traditional yoga doesn't mean one becomes good and one becomes bad. That also needs to be told, okay? We are just comparing, we are contrasting. Doesn't mean—this is not a value judgment on any of them. So having said that, there are some definite markers that can kind of help us put a context to modern yoga and traditional yoga. Now I've spoken to some people, some senior teachers, they don't like this. You know, they don't… you know, yoga is yoga… don't divide it into modern and traditional. But I don't see why we should not. You know, like, just because we divide a timeline doesn't mean one is good and one is bad. You know if you say medieval history and modern history doesn't mean medieval history is bad. Right? So we're just dividing it in this sense. So, number one, I would say in that popular/modern yoga we see yoga purely from its physical benefits. Thankfully in the last 8-10 years it has also become mental benefit. You know nowadays we see yoga as a mind-body modality rather than a purely physical fitness modality that was the narrative 10 years ago. But in the traditional sense, as I told you, as we discussed, it is very clear, it is a path or a process of Moksha or self-knowledge. Liberation and/or self-knowledge, both are the same. You can't liberate yourself without self-knowledge, you know? So that's that. It's very clear. You pick up any yoga book, pre-modern yoga book and it will be based in this goal that ultimately we are trying to reach a state of Moksha. Number two, in modern yoga we see yoga as a practice. So I do something and that's it. You know, twice a week, five times a week, twice a day, whatever. But traditional yoga looks at yoga as a process. The process of self-transformation. Even though the yogi may start with some very physical modalities, the yogi knows where they are trying to go. You know? So it… and the scriptures are very vocal about it. That when the scriptures talk about yoga they talk about the whole, the spectrum. Third would be, and it is very interesting, that in popular yoga you don't need the ethical-moral framework. Traditional yoga is very, very strongly based in ethical-moral systems and framework. And in this sense… this is a major, major point. Why do we need ethical-moral framework? Because ultimately it is about making you a better person. It doesn't see the length of your muscles. [Laughing] It sees your consideration towards yourself, towards others, how you behave, your world view, your humility, your gratitude, your sense of giving. So many things, so many things. In popular yoga you don't need, you know, you don't need to know how you behave in your normal life to buy a 10-class pass to your local yoga studio. The local yoga studio receptionist is not going to ask you, “Do you behave well with your family? Do you lie to your wife and children?” No. Right? So, imagine if that would happen. [Laughing] I think that should happen. I think it's high time. And I have good enough substantiations for this statement that I just made.
Number four, there is no need of knowing history, philosophy, culture of yoga in the modern framework. I can go to a yoga class, have a good “workout,” which is good, no problem, I'm not against it. But I don't need to know. It's like when I hail a cab, I don't need to know how the engine functions. It's like that, you know? This is what I call commodification. I call for a taxi and I sit in a taxi, I want to go to the airport, just do your job. You know, don't tell me what engine is it and how many horsepower it is, I don't need to know. So this is what I call commodification, then you don't you don't need to know. And that's why… the additional point to this point is that in there is no need for a studentship in modern yoga. There is no need to be sincere, to be dedicated, to be regular. Yes, it will help, but it's not required. You know, if I buy a 10 class pass, then, and I don't go to the studio, then I can say to the manager, “Can you extend my three classes over next two months, please, I am traveling.” And if they want to retain a customer, they would allow. You know, so traditional yoga that doesn't happen. And lastly, modern yoga is not based in a particular cultural, spiritual ecosystem. You know, it is a combination, a little bit of this, little bit of that and you know, like a nice mix and match product. Take this. Is it enticing enough? No. We will add some latest playlist! You know? so it is a product created to entice the people. In traditional yogic system it is based in a cultural, traditional… you can say ecosystem, I call it ecosystem. It comes from certain fundamental beliefs, certain ideologies, certain ways of life. So these are just five points. In my head I have list… I have written also about it. I have written in a blog on one of my websites—10 differences. There's a lot, there's a lot of differences.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah. Thank you for going into those, those differences, because I know I definitely see that for myself as well. And I know there are students that are like, “Well, I'm only interested in the physical practice. So what's wrong with that? Why can't I?” And what would you say to a student that’s just like, “Well I only care about the physical practice, that's all I want to learn,” And they're just a student, they're just a practitioner, they're not a teacher. What would you say to the student that only wants to do physical practice and just doesn’t care?
Prasad Rangnekar
The student… sorry, now I would divide this into two. Number one: student and number two: practitioner. If I am just a practitioner, then I don't need to know. Like I gave an example, I am just calling for a cab to the airport. I don't need to know how your engine works and how much gas it consumes. But as a… if I am a student then I need to know. And if I am a teacher it is my moral responsibility to tell them. So what I would do is, if I am a studio owner or a teacher, I will make it a point to again and again let people know that yoga is something more than what we are doing in that studio, in that space. That's my rule and this I feel is the moral responsibility of a yoga teacher. Then let people choose. I tell them yoga is a science of life. Yoga doesn't only end with asanas even though we are doing mainly asanas, that's not the end of it. Do you know yoga has meditation also? Do you know yoga has pranayama also? And, in fact, this makes more “business sense” if I can say that. Because the customer is told about the offerings. Right? So as a studio owner, as a teacher, I will… I think it's a responsibility of the teacher to show the entire spectrum of yoga and then the student or the practitioner, I would say, can choose what they want and then that's their free will.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah. I think that’s—
Prasad Rangnekar
And it is good. It is good that the student will choose whatever they feel capable of. Sorry, I cut you off, what where you saying?
Harpinder Mann
Oh, that’s… I mean, you were still talking. So, I was about to cut you off. So, I think what I wanted to say is that I think that's an important distinction between just a practitioner, a student, and a teacher. Like, what are the roles and responsibilities for each person? Because if you're just a practitioner, you're like, “I only want to do the physical practice.” Well, then it's fine. And then that's your role and responsibility that you get to choose. But as a, and I know you say this often, like a sincere student or as a teacher, then that does become your role or responsibility as a yoga student, as a yoga teacher, to understand that there's more and to offer that, to teach that and to learn and continue studying yourself.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely.
Harpinder Mann
In research for this book and even just looking at my own trainings, I spoke to so many people that talked about in their 200 hour, 300 hour, they didn't really go into too much history. That their teacher trainers didn't go too much into philosophy either. And I find that really interesting.
Prasad Rangnekar
This is a new phenomenon. This is a new phenomenon. You know, including history, philosophy. Philosophy may not be, but history in the curriculum is a very recent phenomenon. Yeah. It's as recent as five, six years.
Harpinder Mann
Why do you think that is? Why hasn't it been included for so long?
Prasad Rangnekar
Narratives keep changing. You know, so we can't really pinpoint on one particular point, but people are becoming more aware. Or, I would say, people are becoming more sensitive of cultures, traditions and that general sensitivity of people has just gone into the field of yoga. Now people are inquiring, people are more considerate and conscious of other people's culture, inclusivity. So this general worldview has come into yoga also.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, where people are just becoming more aware and wanting to understand and then that impacts…
Prasad Rangnekar
Wanting, yeah.
Harpinder Mann
Okay. That makes sense.
Prasad Rangnekar
Correct. So it's like, you know, it's like the whole wave of wanting to be sensitive to other people's culture came to yoga and they were like, “Does yoga have a culture? Let me check. Oh, wow! Yoga has a culture. Now let's know about it.” You know, it's like they… the whole sensitivity, which is great. They just knocked on the yoga's door and asked them, you know, “Hi yoga, do you have some cultural basis to you?” And yoga said, “Here goes 5000 years of history, take what you want.” Sudden, sudden.
Harpinder Mann
This leads into to my next question which is a little bit of a bigger question. When students or teachers are wanting to learn about yogic history, what's important to focus on?
Prasad Rangnekar
Realize that yoga is huge. This is a very loaded question. And even the subject matter is loaded in the sense of, you can't just say, “Oh I want to know about yoga history, let me go and pick up a book.” Can't be like that. So number one: sitting and just acknowledging the fact that scope of yoga, not just history, scope of yoga is huge! Like I said, time-wise, it is at least, at least 3,000 to 3,500 years. At least. Okay? If you look at the oral tradition and if you look at the Indic understanding through the Puranas and literatures, then it goes to thousands and sometimes even millions of years. So it is huge, it is complex, it is multi-layered. As I told you, it can be divided on various planes. You know? Why am I telling this is because it is important to know the scale before we venture into it. If you say, if somebody thinks, “Ah yoga philosophy is Patanjali Yoga Sutra, okay. I just have to study one book.” No. And traditionally Patanjali Yoga Sutra was not the first book handed out to yoga students. No. It is a mature scripture. You had to study many other subjects and scriptures before you came to study the Yoga Sutra. Yoga Sutra by itself cannot be understood by itself. Like say, Bhagavad Gita. I would say there are pre-study scriptures to Bhagavad Gita too. But doesn't matter that. You know if you take one on one comparison, Yoga Sutra is much more complex. So just knowing the scale before venturing into it would help. Otherwise the overwhelming start. And then what happens is once we get overwhelmed, we lose interest.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, I think um… what's also helpful here… I mean it's this is also just giving a lot of relief for me with my book, so when someone picks up my book, know I'm just covering a little bit. There's a lot more there. So don't think I’m gonna cover it all. But I think what this is also helping is sometimes I find there's a simplistic understanding of yoga where people are like, “Oh, yeah, you're right. There's more to asana. There's the eight limbs.” But then it's like, well, we can even move past the eight limbs. And if… and the next question will eventually get to the margas of yoga. There's other lineages that have their own limbs of yoga. There's actually so much more to yoga than just the understanding of like, “Oh, it's just the eight limbs.” Not again to, like, overwhelm people, but just to understand the breadth of vastness that is available.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely. And this is something that I see that happens, you know. It's a natural human tendency to want to simplify things, which is great. But in wanting to simplify things, we are making something that is multi-dimensional into linear. You know? So, we need to ask, is our... Is wanting to make yoga accessible, diluting it? This is a question we need to ask. Right? It's like this. If I... You know, I give this example. If... You know, I'm trying to serve you tea. Okay? And you drink the tea and you say, “Oh it's very strong,” and then you say, “Okay don't worry I'll add some hot water.” You add some hot water and now you added so much water that it… there's no tea anymore, you're just drinking hot water but you're calling it tea. Right? So we need to find that balance, which is possible. You can't just drink the raw concoction of tea. It's too much. You'll just keep hopping for the next 24 hours. [Laughing] Right? But then you can't also dilute the tea so much that just, just, just in your mind it is tea, but actually you're drinking hot water. So we need to find that balance. And for this it is very—I am saying it again, it is very important to have a well-grounded studentship. Finding a teacher, being a student, considering yourself a student. And teaching out of your knowledge and experience as a student rather than just getting a certificate and teaching.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, I think that's an important distinction because I think it's again that reminder of the wisdom of life experience. Where it's not, “I'm 19 years old. I've taken a 200 hour teacher training and now I know everything and I can teach everything.” And I was like, well, the life experience also counts for so much. And how much are you actually applying it in your life and then teaching from that place? And I know for myself, having worked with you this entire year now and having worked other teachers in a one-on-one way has really helped me to ground into my teachings, has helped me find that sense of balance in my own life where it's not just, “if I'm doing asana five times a week, then I'm a good yoga teacher.”That really has nothing to do with being a good yoga teacher.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely.
Harpinder Mann
Being a good yoga teacher is like, how sincere can I be? Can I also admit, like, “Oh, I don't know something. Let me come back to you on that.” I think there's so many different qualities that being a good teacher, or being a good yoga teacher, or a good, even yoga student includes, that's beyond just like, “Can you do a handstand?”
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely.
Harpinder Mann
“Are you able to contort your body in a certain way?” And it's like, maybe that's the conversation we also need to be having is like, how does someone be a good yoga student? How would someone be a... and maybe the word “good” is also, you know, good or bad, sincere. How does someone be a sincere yoga student?
Prasad Rangnekar
Sincere is a better word rather than good and bad or authentic or inauthentic. Yeah, so sincerity starts with the self straight away, you know. It’s all about… I want to say it's all about your commitment to your sadhana or your practice. Your commitment to your study, svadhyaya. Your commitment to how you face life challenges, how you drop your limiting notions of self, how you lighten your mind. We need to give more emphasis to that rather than… I have a blue tick or I can stand on my head for two hours or I have 1 million followers on Instagram or I just released a book or I have PhD. You know? These are all supplements but that's why it's called supplement, you know? Supplement cannot be in absence of what is the main thing. Main thing is you and how have you transformed yourself? That's it.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, I feel like what's coming to me is in a world, I feel like maybe that's sometimes like… when we're trying to commodify something maybe it's hard to be like, “Well, how do I commodify and show that I've transformed myself?” versus like I can show myself doing a headstand I can get a million followers. But how do I show someone that I've transformed myself? If we're thinking about yoga as a commodity.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely.
Harpinder Mann
And that becomes a little bit...
Prasad Rangnekar
You are absolutely right. You know that's why I sometimes I say that the whole performative yoga has come up because how can you show that you are a yogi or a practitioner? It's by... you can't show your state of mind in meditation. You can't show that you are an ethically-behaved person. You can't give them a scale or excel sheet about, “I did not lie to my wife 25 out of 30 days so I am a sincere yoga practitioner.” You can't do that, the only thing you can do is you know, move and twist and things like that. So, yeah, that's a territory we need to see how to navigate. But there are other aspects of yoga too. You know, you can be good to others. You can write about things. You can teach. You can do charity. You can write about your experiences. As to, let's say, as to how you could stay calm in a situation that would have triggered you, due to your pranayama practice. You know that's why I really tell my yoga students to write. You know? Don't… I mean you can put a picture of yourself in asana, but then what happens is then the whole narrative change. You know, it's like if I always say that America is Statue of Liberty. Then the whole world thinks: America, Statue of Liberty only. But there's so much to the US. You know? Or India is elephants. So people land in Delhi airport and where are the elephants? [Laughing] You know? So we are… we need to become… and this is happening more and more and I'm very very thankful for it—that we need to be conscious of what we put out there. Just like we have to be conscious of who we get “influenced” by. As a consumer of social media, we also need to be conscious of how we influence. So it's not just what we consume from an influencer, but what we give as an influencer. You need to be conscious of that.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really important point. Around having that awareness, the consciousness around like, what are we consuming and what are we also, in ways that we're also influencing other people. Cause I know the way that I also post and share has drastically changed. Because what I saw was like pictures of people in asana poses and I thought, “Oh, that's what it means to be a yoga student, yoga teacher.” So I was kind of just following. And then I realized, wait, no, there's more to this. And then over time, the way that I also post and share changed as well.
Prasad Rangnekar
Yes.
Harpinder Mann
The next question I had for you, and I've been itching to get here, is the margas of yoga, the different paths of yoga. What are they? Are they important to understand, to practice? I would love to hear you on this.
Prasad Rangnekar
So what this is, this is a very important term, the marga, and I've written about this many times because I want this term to be out in the public domain. Marga. Marga literally means path. Now if… if you say path, then of course the next question is what is the destination? That itself makes the whole yoga picture clear. If I call something a path, two things are directly deducted. Number one: that path is going somewhere, otherwise it would not be a path. And number two: there is a journey. The moment I call something a path, something a yoga path, these two things my mind deciphers naturally. If it's a path, there is a journey. If it's a path, there is a destination. There is a means, there is an end. So as I told you or as we discussed that in the traditional narrative of yoga, there is a very systematically-laid down goal. That goal is called differently in different schools of thought. Some call it Moksha, some call it Nirvana, some call it Dukkha Nivrutti, that is release from suffering, some call it Atma Jnana, you know knowledge of self, whatever. You can say these are just different terms to denote the same state of mind or state of knowledge. So if that goal is set then these are just multiple pathways to that goal. So what we call nowadays as XYZ yoga, ABC yoga, you know, PQR yoga are the margas.
In the traditional literature it is called Bhakti Marga, the path of Bhakti. Or it is called Jnana Marga, path of knowledge. Karma Marga, path of Karma Yoga. I feel it is very important that this should be made known to people because I have seen people reach kind of a roadblock. “Okay, I am pretty flexible in my body. Now what? Does yoga end there?” If you tell them that there are many paths that you can walk on and it's not like these are linear paths, you know, like not like one ways, okay. They interact, they intersect, you know, you cannot say no karma. Are you a karma yogi? Oh, I'm a bhakti yogi. Nice to meet you. You can't say like that. Okay. Karma mixes with Bhakti. Bhakti mixes with Karma. Both of them refine your Jnana. You know, so again, nothing is linear in Yoga. You know, it makes me laugh because you can't say, “This is this.” So, the more people know about, you know, again going back to my restaurant analogy. If people are told what the chef can make, then they have a choice. If the menu card just has one dish, then they have no other choice. Then they will consume the dish and leave. So I feel it is a moral responsibility of every yoga educator or teacher to tell the consumers that these and these are there, these and these exist and they take you to a certain refined state of existence.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, something else that, and I had mentioned this before we hit recording is, I was also looking at… and I know you write a lot about Hatha Yoga being one of the Margas, but then Raja Yoga is somewhere I was getting a little bit confused looking at the history of the Raja Marga. And that didn’t seem quite as—and this is just from my perspective—like well-defined, as when I was looking at Karma Marga and Bhakti Marga, Raja Yoga seemed a little bit more maybe recent. So I was wondering if you had any more context around that.
Prasad Rangnekar
It is a recent—I say recent in the history of yoga, okay? It’s a fairly recent word that has come into play of the yogic discourse. What is Raja Marga? Or, Raja Yoga. It could mean different things to different margas. I would say Raja Marga… actually you can't even call it Marga, you should just say Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga is a state of refined mind, or refining the mind. So that’s why you will find the Hatha Yoga scriptures mention Raja Yoga. Hatha Pradipika says you do this Hatha Kriyas, means Hatha modalities—physical, corporal modalities like Kriyas, Shuddhi Kriya, Asana, Pranaya, Mudra, Bandha, these physicalized modalities you do for what? Only for the sake of Raja Yoga. And Hatha Pradipika defines Raja Yoga is as a pursuit of Samadhi. And Samadhi is purely mental. So a broad sense of Raja Yoga would be a higher subtler pursuit of yoga which entails mental refinement. And that's why the Hatha Yogis keep saying this again and again. Exactly to avoid mistake to certain extent that we have done in modern yoga. The Hatha yogis always want to remind us that—why are you doing all these physical practices? Only to refine your mind. Never forget that, never forget that, never forget that. So Swatma Rama says you do these Hatha modalities only for refining your mind to take it to Samadhi, the highest level of Samadhi.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, thank you for going—
Prasad Rangnekar
So that is Raja. And the etymological meaning of Raja Yoga: Raja means king or… not even king actually. You could genderize it. It means king or it means royalty. And the essence of this word is just like a king or a queen has dominion over everything in their kingdom. Understand this, this is beautiful. Just like a king is the owner, controller of every resource, every asset, everything in his geographic boundary or his kingdom. Same way, when you reach the highest level of samadhi, you have dominion, control, ownership over every aspect of yourself. So you literally become the thing of your “personality.” Because you have ascended to that level of mind from where you can literally command any processes of your mind. That's why the sixth chakra is called Adnya chakra. Adnya means command. Adnya means command. So when your Kundalini comes here, you reach a [word] state of mental refinement from which you can give a straight, authoritative command to any aspect of your mind. You can say: nervous system work properly. Mind, now don't go into the memory. Whatever! You are not in the bondage or limitation of your karmas, your conditionings, your impulses, your likes and dislikes. You have a complete control. You are the king of your mental world. That's why the title, Raja Yoga, king. There's a lot of symbolism in yoga that that needs to be understood in a symbolic sense only.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, I've never heard it described that way. And so thank you, thank you for that. And I feel like as you were describing it, I could feel every cell in my body be like, “Wow, like that would be so amazing. If I could be like, mind stop thinking about that thing.” Instead, my mind's just like, “What about, what about” and I'm just like, “No, we need to focus.” To have that amount of command. I'm like, “Wow!” You know, that's what we're working towards on this path.
Prasad Rangnekar
Very good. Very good. Let that be your process goal. And it happens. And you don't even have to go to that highest state. Just slight refinement of your mind. You feel confident, you feel more into yourself, you feel “yes I can do it,” you feel empowered. You know, just slight move, you know? Like you get over one fear of yours. Imagine, just one fear. How empowered you feel, you know? If you get over let's say a sphere of spiders. You work on it. You have fear of spider and then you get over your fear of spiders and then you're like, “Send them on, any spider! Send giant tarantula and I will not be scared!” You know it's like, you know? Like you're scared, you’re anxious to sing in front of people but now you've gotten over your stage fright. And somebody says casually, “Hey, Harpinder why don't you sing a song in this party?” Why not? Give her the mic! How empowered you feel. Now imagine that happening with every limitation that you have. This is what Patanjali says—why do you refine yourself through samadhi? Because every refinement literally releases the purusha or the eternality of consciousness from these tight limitations. And when that happens, you experience them. It's not like, you know, you... it's a lived experience. It's just like body grows during puberty. I always correlate a yogic process to puberty. Why? Because our body grows, you know? Physical changes, mental changes. It's complete—anatomically, psychologically, comes with its own confusion. So why do I give a correlation to puberty processes? Because you live puberty. You go through the pain, you go through the shame, you go through the hurt to become bigger, taller, not necessarily smarter, [laughing] you know, but it's a lived experience. So, in philosophy they call it phenomenological reality. You are living it. It's not just something that you do.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, thank you for that example, because I feel like what was also coming up for me is it kind of goes back to earlier what we were talking about, like, applying the teachings to our life. Because I think about certain projects that I've had, where maybe I used to be like getting so strongly attached to perfectionism, or it needs to look a certain way at the end of it or the outcome and then just understanding I can only control what I can right now. I don't know the outcome of it, what it's going to look like so stop even focusing on that. Just focus here. And allowing some of that burden and limitation to release is freeing. And I, and I have come to the understanding through yoga, through yogic philosophy. And I think that's where we start to see in ways that we limit ourselves. And it's just like, “Okay, I'm seeing that I'm limiting myself, how can I unshackle that? How can I actually expand it to be free in this moment?” There was once you said to me, this was like two months ago in one of our sessions, you were like, “If you wanted and you like snapped your fingers, you could reach enlightenment like this.” I spent like two months thinking about that. I was just like, “What does that mean? Like what?” And for me, the understanding I've come to is any moment when I'm feeling really fearful or really anxious or really like ehhhh [fearful noise]. In that moment, I can decide, “I don't need to feel that way. I don't need to have such a tight grip or fear. I can literally…” I mean, we need to feel our feelings and those things not bypassing but like, I was like, “Oh, like, I can just not be that way.” And I've tried in certain circumstances where I'm just like feeling really just like, “Oh this is not happening the way I want!” And I'm like, “Well it's happening the way it is so maybe that's just okay.” And then I literally feel lighter in that understanding. But I've been I was thinking about that ever since you said that.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely! You know you hit the nail in the head or on the head! This is vairagya. Understand. Not just Patanjali. Patanjali says abhyasa and vairagya. Practice and detachment. You see how you said it. “I don't have to.” So what did you do? You dropped it. You see, this is a very very crucial component of yoga that again is not emphasized enough because of commodification. The process of yoga or the evolution of yoga happens through practice and detachment. And how you said, “When I dropped it, it was freeing.” Then this is a line in Bhagavad Gita, “Tyagat shanti nirantram.” Tyagat shanti means through tyaga, means through letting go, shanti! It comes in chapter number 12. So, “tyagat shanti” means… “tya” or “tyagat” means through “tyagat,” letting go, giving up, eternal “shanti” ensues. Now, because somewhere we are all bounded in this spiritual materialism, nobody is going to tell us. People are going to say, “Buy my product!” They are not going to say, “Don't buy my product!” People are going to say, “Consume one more course.” What you will hear is, consumption. Not letting go.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah. I—
Prasad Rangnekar
[Unintelligable]
Harpinder Mann
Sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off. Did you…
Prasad Rangnekar
And secondly, the reason why we feel empowered is because the source of empowerment is already there. It doesn't come from outside. This is a very deep subject that I'm hinting at—we can talk on this for hours. That if I put a black cloth on a light, then the light, the light, the radiation is… what you call… hidden. Now, when I remove that cloth, the light shines again. Why light shines? Because radiating light is the nature of that light bulb or tube light or whatever you call it. Now when you drop something, why did you feel free? It's not that what you dropped only in that much part freedom came in from outside. No, you are already free and when you dropped a layer that freedom just radiated out of that little gap that you created. So we are not really—and we really need to understand this point—we are gaining in yogic process. What we are gaining is something that we already have. It's not coming from outside and that's why the whole process of yoga—and I've written about this a few times—but it doesn't get as appreciated as some other physical force of mine. But that doesn't matter really. But what I am trying to say is the whole process of yoga is just about dropping, dropping. Dropping our guards, letting go of our fears, letting go of our guilt, resentment, memory. So one by one, one by one we are just demolishing the walls that have been aging our conscience or our true nature. And that's why you see what I have said before that it's not about how much you know. It's not really about that. It's about how you use your knowledge to undo yourself. And if this point is not understood, you just become a consumer. That's why there's a beautiful line in one of the scriptures of Tantra called Shiva Sutra. It says “gnanam bandha,” knowledge is bondage. And I love this, it's a warning. Knowledge is bondage. Knowledge can become bondage, especially the way we understand knowledge now. Information, collecting qualifications, you know? I read ten scriptures, I can chant 100 mantras. It is helpful, but this is not it. Means are not the end.
Harpinder Mann
Mmmmm. Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's just so much wisdom you shared. I'm just taking the time to even like process all of it instead of it just going in one one ear and just immediately out the other. And something else that came up for me and as we near the end of our time together on this podcast.
Prasad Rangnekar
Oh, it's done already? Oh, OK. I thought I thought we were just getting warmed up.
Harpinder Mann
I know. I mean, we can go for another couple of hours.
Prasad Rangnekar
I know, I know.
Harpinder Mann
I'm okay with that. But the last that I had is around critical thinking. Do you think critical thinking is missing from the way yoga is taught right—is taught currently? And what would it look like? What does critical thinking look like? Because I know what I've seen sometimes in the space that people saying, “Well, like no judgment.” If someone tries to express like, “Oh, maybe you shouldn't say it or practice in that way,” or “Only love and light” or “It's only about embodied practice so we don't need to even understand from a knowledge perspective.” Yeah, what do you have to say around any knowledge?
Prasad Rangnekar
Any knowledge… no, any knowledge. I think number one, yes. Okay. In all honesty, I think Modern Yoga World, and when I say Modern Yoga World, I mean the stakeholders of Modern Yoga World, the yoga teachers, need to become [a] little more critical minded, as in need to use critical thinking. It is important because when you say “knowledge,” it becomes an exploration. Yoga is investigation. Yoga is not just practice. Commodification makes it practice. Remember my Uber example. “Okay, I come to you, you make me go through 20 sequences, I sweat it out, I feel stretched, I go home. I don't need to know which muscle it is stretching and why.” Fair enough. But at the level of teachers and students, critical thinking becomes very, very important. Because anything and everything can be marketed as yoga. Right? So if we say yoga is knowledge, if we say yoga is pursuit of understanding, then there is some kind of investigation. If there is some kind of investigation, then we should know what to take, what to reject, what to filter out, how to investigate. Right? I mean investigation, you can't be haphazard, you can't… if I have to find my sock that I lost, I have to go systematically.
So this logic and you know, this logical or critical thinking process is an essential part of yogic study in the tradition. Not just Eastern tradition. You take any ancient knowledge system, including Western philosophy, before you study philosophy you have to have at least a little understanding of logic. Okay, you take Indian philosophy, Chinese philosophy, you have an understanding—you need an understanding of critical thinking because to know… to know, you have to know how to know. There's a whole subject in philosophy called epistemology. Epistemology means theory of knowledge. When I say I know, what do I mean? Do I really know what I mean or is it my imagination or belief? You know? So like for example Patanjali talks about Pramana. When Patanjali talks about the five vrittis. Pramana, Viparyaja, Vikalpa, Nidrasmriti. Pramana. Pramana means definitive knowledge and then Patanjali says, “What is definitive knowledge?” Pratyaksha Anumana Agama Pramanaani means definitive knowledge comes from actual sensory experience, Pramana or inference and testimony. Testimony of the scripture, testimony of my guru, your guru or something like that. So the point that I'm making is yes, it would be nice if yoga teachers are educated at least in some basic critical thinking. The reason I want this to happen is because modern yoga or even modern spirituality has become too mystical, too subjective. So… which is full of erroneous claims. You know like, if something becomes mystical I can say anything without wanting or needing to give a substantial claim.
And we see that in social media. “Yoga is XYZ.” And if you ask them, can you substantiate your claim by citing the source? “No, I feel.” Yeah, but your feeling doesn't make it real. It makes it real for you. You know I can say, “I feel moon doesn't exist.” Fair enough. Be happy in your feeling but don't thrust it on others. This happens a lot in mysticism. I'm not against mysticism but vague claims… you know that's why many people, many other professionals don't take yogi seriously. You see how eyes, how they roll their eyes, “Oh you're yogi,” you know. Especially you know medical doctors and things like that. I'm not saying we need their approval but if we call ourselves yoga professionals, then there has to be a professional to professional sense of respect. When a lawyer meets a doctor, “Oh you're a doctor,” “Oh you're a lawyer.” When a doctor meets a yoga teacher, [higher pitched] “Oh… you're a yoga teacher.” [Laughing] You know? Sorry I'm talking it in a lighter note but the subject matter is serious here. So we need critical thinking and that's why things like beer yoga and goat yoga are passed off as yoga because anything goes! “Beer yoga helped me a lot therefore beer yoga.” No this is , this is… you cannot call this pramana. And the tradition of yoga is very very insistent on this. You cannot just make a claim like this. You cannot. Just like in the court of law. In the court of law you cannot just say, “This is law.” No. It has to be a law. It has to be in the books. You cannot just create anything. Or in medical science you cannot just create an organ and say I have this organ. No.
So, yeah I think somewhere we need—to cut it short, I have many points but doesn’t matter—to cut it short, it will be nice if we learn how to think critically because now what has happened is yoga is mixed between science and spiritual. Those who look at yoga as spiritual, they don't like science intervening. Those who look at yoga as science, don't like spiritual intervening. You know, so spiritual people will say, “Huh, modern science doesn't know anything.” Science people will say, “Oh, that is airy-fairy.” No, we need to reconcile both. Yes, they don't have to agree on both. But we can say, “Okay, scientifically it's like this. And spiritually, scripturally, it's like this.” And that can happen. You know, and I feel the time has come when every yoga teacher looks at things objectively, critically. Logic is not the enemy of heart. In fact, in fact, in the tradition of yoga, logic is used only to refine the mind and a refined mind reflects the true [word]. The refined mind is buddhi. A mind that is refined, pristine, clear like a mirror, reflects objects as they are. Not a dent, not a smudge. So we use the logic as a process of detachment. Exactly what you said. You filter out the claims and false notions to come to a refined state of mind from which you can access the world as it is, not as you want it to be. That's why critical thinking is needed. It is a very essential part of yogi philosophy study. Okay, not everybody used to know logic or study logic, but those who wanted to delve into the philosophy had to.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, I remember taking some philosophy classes when I was at UCLA and just, it just seemed like everything was going right over my head. And I just remember sitting there, I was just like the self, non-self, and it was just the most, some of the most confusing classes I've ever had. And what I think that makes me think about with like yogic philosophy, and what I've seen sometimes teachers saying is like, “Oh, you can learn on your own, just pick up a book, a translation and commentary of the Yoga Sutras, and you'll be fine, you'll learn it.” I'm like, it's just not quite that simplistic. There's like more steps and things beforehand. And what you're saying, like learning about logic and having that critical thinking piece and then going and entering into that yogic philosophy instead of it just being like, “Yep, you can do it yourself!” Because I remember being in those classes just like, “What am I learning right now? Like, this is pretty difficult.”
Prasad Rangnekar
Yeah, but what I believe a right teacher can teach. You know, you need to find a teacher that can simplify. And also objectively tell you, “Look, beyond this I can't simplify.” Because with yoga what happens is you can simplify and after a point you can't simplify. After a point, the student has to raise their level to access that much. Everything cannot be simplified.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah.
Prasad Rangnekar
So, it is a dual process. You have to raise your level as a student. Like advanced mathematics, you cannot teach to a 2nd or 3rd grade student, but you have to start with basic arithmetics. 2 plus 2 is 4. Okay. And then go into advanced calculus or integration or whatever. So we have to understand this as yoga teachers and students that the knowledge is spectrum. We have to grow and access that knowledge. See this is why in popular understanding of Yoga Sutra the biggest topic discussed is Yama and Niyama. How many times have you seen anybody write a post on levels of Samadhi from Yoga Sutra? Everybody talks about asana, yama, niyama, nothing wrong with it. Why? Because asana, we can identify. Yama, niyama, yes we live it. The highest state of Samadhi we will never even understand. That's why, you know, when people say Yoga Sutra is all about yama niyama, not really. Yes, it is important but just don't again reduce it only to yama, niyama. It's not just 10 ethical moral commandments given to you and that's the end of it. No, there is so much in the Yoga Sutra apart from yama, niyama, asana and pranayama. In fact, sometimes I say the Ashtanga Yoga or the eightfold path of Patanjali's yoga is not even the philosophical section of Yoga Sutra. It is the practice section. It is not the core philosophy of Yoga Sutra. Core philosophy of Yoga Sutra is something completely different. So when we say the eight limbs of Patanjali's Yoga Sutra are philosophy… eh. They are methodology, they are modalities, they are the how. The why he gives in other chapters. So yes, we can make it accessible, you know, like bite-sized wisdom. But there is also a responsibility of the student to grow to in order to access deeper knowledge. And that's why practice is important.
Harpinder Mann
Absolutely. Yeah, I think there's so much in what you share right now that's really resonating. And I also think this is a perfect place to end this conversation. So as we begin to wrap up, is there anything else you want to share, where people can find you? I'll have all of that linked as well.
Prasad Rangnekar
Yeah, so they can just read the link.
Harpinder Mann
[Laughing] So that we...
Prasad Rangnekar
One last thing actually, thank you for asking. One last thing I would like to say and urge to every yoga practitioner is to be patient with themselves. Be patient. Don't look at it as some competition or some reason or some method of elevating your self-esteem. Process of yoga is not about gaining validation, gaining self-worth, gaining titles, gaining anything. Process of yoga is losing. So please be patient. It is a process. It's gonna take time. Hold your self-study. Be a friend to yourself. Walk hand in hand with all the you's that you have in your head. All the selves inside your head, all the voices inside your head should become a team and move on the path. And for that patience is most important virtue or attitude that one can cultivate. That's it really. And the rest will come with time.
Harpinder Mann
Yeah, thank you. What a beautiful reminder to end on. Because I even think as people hear this episode and they're like, “Well I want to learn the history and the philosophy. Now where do I go? Like where is the teacher?” You know, patience.
Prasad Rangnekar
Yes.
Harpinder Mann
It doesn't need to happen tomorrow.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely.
Harpinder Mann
It doesn't need to happen next week. Just like, slowly start to understand. How much do you know? What do you want to know? Look for a teacher and it just doesn't have to happen tomorrow. So even as you listen to this episode, if it's bringing up different things for you, take time to just sit down, go for a walk, like journal, reflect. Action doesn't need to be taken immediately.
Prasad Rangnekar
Absolutely.
Harpinder Mann
You can take time to just process and reflect and such a beautiful reminder and having that patience. This is a life, a lifelong pursuit. So thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time for your wisdom. It was such a pleasure to have you on this podcast.
Prasad Rangnekar
Thank you so much and all the best with your book.
Harpinder Mann
Thank you so much. And thank you everybody for tuning in. I'll see you all for the next episode. Bye.
Prasad Rangnekar
Bye.